So, you've already read chapters 1-3 and each section had some interesting discussion...here is where you can post any comments, thoughts, questions, etc. about what you've read so far.
I am unable to upload the powerpoint presentation here, but you can find it when you log into Blackboard.
ALSO, I am compiling a post that will include live links to the newly designed digital texts, so email me your link and/or bring a hard copy of your digital text to class this coming week.
Proactive Pathways for Engagement
12 hours ago
I think it is very interesting just how segregated educational institutions are even in our day and age. I was just curious as to how and why things haven't changed and the schooling systems are still focused on areas and wealth children have as the major factors in which decides where they attend school.
ReplyDeleteI am shocked after reading chapter 5. The "lads" opposition to authority is something right out a movie that we may see. I am also shocked by the language that they are using! I dont ever remember students being like this in my school and this has opened my eyes in that there ARE students who will go this far to prove how much they "think" that they dont need education.
ReplyDeleteI can't say I was as shocked as other people seem to be about this book. I have read Jean Aynon's work before so the idea of different economic classes getting different levels of education was not a surprise to me. However, I did like how Finn discussed Parent's views on education and how they effect their children's views on education.
ReplyDeleteI was interested in the chapter on immigrant minority and involuntary minority. It allowed me to understand how different cultures view education in different ways based on if they voluntarily came over to North America or if they were forced to North America. The question is, how do we make the educational field equal
What I found with chapter 4 was that students who immigrated to Canada, the USA or any other developed country do much better in regards to education than students who are native to that particular country. I feel that this is because that immigrant students feel that have something to prove to not only to their new community but more importantly to themselves. They feel that thy need to prove something to themselves because they want to justify and illustrate why they deserve to be here. On the other hand, students who are native to that particular developed country feel that they have a right to be here, and do not need to prove or justify why that is. They feel a sense of entitlement.
ReplyDeleteSo far I find Finn's book quite interesting. It has generated a lot of discussion in our classes. Agreeing with Heather's comment, I was not necessarily surprised to hear about the different levels of education and the segregation that occurs. Jean Anyon's text explained this in detail quite effectively already. Overall however, I found the 'Lads' to be a fascinating group. They go against everything that is deemed 'correct' in our society. They oppose authority, drink, smoke and are only 14 and 15 years old. It makes you wonder how many different groups are out there that go against what is considered the 'norm.'
ReplyDeleteI feel that parts of our society are so far behind. The more I read this book the more I seem to read in disbelief. In chapter 9 where it talks about Roadville parents, especially mothers who will not try new recopies, this is just a way to present us with the notion that these families are grooming their children to either take over the family business, or to fit into the "roles" that are right for them. In their early education they are taught to not ask why, and to learn things the way they are. Is this not what we are trying to move away from? Do these societies still exists today? And if they do, are they going to be the ones left far behind??
ReplyDeleteIt would be interesting to know how many immigrants are aware of the different social class educational systems as pointed out by Anyon’s research. Are they under the impression that the United States is a land of opportunity and equality? Maybe they are aware of some of the inequities, but are willing to accept them knowing America is still a better place to live than their homeland. Perhaps this type of data is available and it would be interesting to follow and study their whereabouts and how life progresses for these families over a course of time. Conceivably, the United States might be a safer place to live than the immigrants’ homeland, but there are many barriers to be overcome that may last several generations until assimilation and integration with mainstream U.S. are interwoven. These were interesting chapters to read.
ReplyDeleteI was particularly interested in the use of explicit and implicit language. It was something that I did not really know existed at the working class level. I know that sometimes academic language is designed to be understood only by those who are educated and able to criticially analyze text. But I never really thought that working-class groups would use implicit language that would act counter to their own education. So it appears that there are two barriers facing working-class students, one is that their own language is very implicit which constricts their ability to recognize language from someone outside of their own socio-economic group and the second is that school language can be designed, especially at higher levels of education, to disclude those who are uneducated or less educated. Tough spot they're stuck in.
ReplyDeleteRegarding chapter 2: Jean Anyon's study
ReplyDeleteI have to say that the disparities in the educations received amongst the students of the study school was a little shocking for me. I am not one who has been blind to the overwhelming advantages the upper echelon of a society has on their side. Nor am I unaware of the structural barriers which are in place really from the start of one's life who find themselves born into a lower socio-economic status. However, I must admit that it is quite shocking to learn about how this materializes in the education received.
Of course the 'executive elite' and the 'affluent professional' children have advantages, but I have always viewed these advantages as being able to afford to go to the best colleges and universities, having the right contacts when complete school, etc. One thing that I never really had put much thought into was how the overall education received through younger years of schooling may be different. I suppose I always believed the success and failure (for lack of better terms) rates depended on the work that went into the education that was received.
For example (a simple one at that), children of higher socio-economic status families probably value education more, and thus help their children with homework. Example: A child of a single mother who works the night shift is responsible for putting dinner on the table and putting their siblings to bed.
My point is, that never before had I considered the 'type' of education as being a factor. The idea of a poverty as cyclical is really coming to be fully formed in my mind. The role education plays in that cycle is coming to the forefront.
Finn is on to something with his idea that everyone is just playing pretend. Students, parents, teachers, and administrators are all just gliding along on the same wagon ride. The teachers get off and enjoy their cushy retirements, while some students get off and collect social assistance. As long as nobody rocks the boat, everyone gets a hand out. Perhaps I am already on board despite my idealistic and altruistic conception of myself. I wonder what I will really do if I get a teaching job. (hope that will get this blog hoppin')
ReplyDeleteSUMMARIES:
Chapters 1-3: The rich control everything and have unfair advantages.
Chapters 4-6: The poor from all walks of life are equally pissed off with the situation but the rich don't generally care unless they are trying to flip homes and their kids have to go to poor schools. Rich people are willing to sacrifice their kids to slum lords to turn a profit.
Chapter 7: Literate people are acutely aware of just how badly their getting screwed and sometimes that makes them feel better until they go back to school or work.
Chapter 8: Rich people think and talk different than everybody else and educators have traditionally been rich people's lap dogs because they want to be rich too, or at least get invited to the parties and sit in the platinum seats at Leaf games.
Chapter 9: Christian country folks like to beat their kids and secretly wish that teachers were allowed to beat their kids too. They hate Progressive Classrooms because Progressive Classrooms are from the devil, who happens to be a democrat, and a yankee.
Chapter 10: Books are good and Lutherans are bad so get your kid in a Progressive Classroom so they can be the next Donald Trump, and if they can't, then at least they can hang the current one in the coming Revolution.
I am looking forward to the rest of the book, but I wonder what we are all going to do after we burn all elite scum at the stake and we are all chillin' in our socialist utopia. If we gas the Waltons, Bono, and Bill Gates, then who will stave off the Chinese and finance saving the world? Whose going to collect all the garbage since we will all be too smart to do a low class job like that?
I'm sorry, it's late and I'm getting giddy. I just want to be clear that I love everybody, especially rich people, Patrick Finn, and garbage collectors. I do not actually wish to burn anybody at the stake or hang anybody.
I do not wish to gas anybody either
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of Finn’s ideas about the working class and the elite are insightful. So far I particularly enjoyed reading chapter 8 about language development in children. If you think about it language is such a crucial part to literacy development and communication. If babies never learned to make noises to indicate their needs their parents would not know what they wanted. When babies and toddlers make noises and their parents interact, responding to these clues. This is how the child constructs meaning which he would otherwise be unable to do. Finn talks about the opportunities of Maintown babies, who are concerned a conversational partner by their parents, not just from birth, but even from conception. That got me thinking about how important parents are to children not only in literacy development, but as prestige models children learn from. When a toddler makes a noise and points to an object, his mother will pick up the object and say the correct word. She might say “do you want your blanket.” She will then show and/or tell the child what the object is for. This is now the child learns not only proper words, but develops communication skills. It made me think about how crucial parental involvement is in the early development of literacy and how students growing up in the hood are at a disadvantage from birth.
ReplyDeleteWe have been taught about the socio-economic correlation to academic achievement. I have always been concerned that there is no weight given to the responsibility of the individual. In chp 4 we see that immigrants given the same set of circumstances use the oppurtunity to move up the ladder. This is population data, not an anecdote. Although it leads to potentially difficult territory in terms of cultural requirements for and expections of education, I think it is one that must be explored before action can be taken.
ReplyDeleteI'm trying to get this implicit/explicit language down, i understand both concepts, but I'm trying to figure out the pro's and con's of each type or language. Should we, as teachers use explicit language and then work our way to implicit, or just constantly stay with explicit language?
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that constantly using explicit language will guarantee that our students know clearly what is expected of them.
For our purposes we are going to have to make sure students understand the expectations that we set for them, whether they are set within the context of implicit or explicit language.
After finishing chapter s 8-9 i realize that an important aspect of educating children is how we encourage them. Do we encourage them to obey, follow orders and learn the basics like lower economic families, or do we encourage our students to be free/independent thinkers?
ReplyDeleteI think there are pros and cons to both; following orders allows for clear understanding, independent thinking leads to new and unique ideas.
Encouragement from teachers goes hand in hand with encouragement from parents, how do teachers cooperate with parents who set strict gender roles for their children? Or how do teachers cooperate with parents who have their children running around to 15 different extra curricular activities and then show up to school only to sleep at their desk?
There has to be a balance, and more importantly encouragement of the right kind.
Chapter 11: Literacy was a huge component of human advancement in the 18th century. Finn partially defines Literacy with an Attitude as "the potential power of literacy combined with civic courage" (p.133). Now were getting down to the "nitty gritty". Also..."education is never neutral. It either liberates or domesticates" (p.135). Lots of things to think about in here like what do we all need to be liberated from? and Am I part of the apparent problem or the solution?
ReplyDeleteChapter 12: Teachers are gate keepers...in a bad way. We guard the entries and exits between classes. I don't think we are the only ones.
Chapter 13: My favorite chapter so far. I like the precise splitting of intellectuals into sub-categories. It is a little bit artificial, but I think he is on to something with the ways people tend to use their intellectual powers with out even realizing it. Love the characteristic of Dialogue on page 169, and I would like to copy it on both side of a piece of paper and staple it to my own forehead to remind me and my students of what my job is if I ever get a teaching gig. I also like the idea of starting with tools that students already use (ie. basketballs, Nintendo controllers, forks, lighters, etc.) and making the connection between common tools that accomplish specific purposes and literacy.
Finn’s chapter #7 is about the use of explicit language in schools. Students come from working class background are not exposed to explicit language. They use implicit language frequently to communicate. The working class do not get much opportunity to communicate with people from outside their community and consequently have little experience with explicit language. The working class students are used to an authoritarian style and are unable to deal with a collaborative classroom style. Working class students suffer from a habitual use of implicit language and an attitude to powerlessness.
ReplyDeleteThe more and more I read the book I find some of the ideas very interesting. Like many, I have also read Anyon's work and am still suprised how many different levels of education there are in the US. Although I am not americain, I am very aware of the Americain dream and feel that the way the current system is set up- it does not allow for the "have-nots" as Finn calls them to or at least give them a good chance at changing there economic situation.
ReplyDeleteI also wanted to mention that I found his ideas of explicit vs implicit language very interesting. So when I came home last week, I made a point to look at my children's toys and see what types of languages I found. I was surprised to see that the Leap Frog brand which tends to be more expensive tends to use language that seems to over explain while other cheaper no name brands, tend to simply use one adjective. I found this interesting.
I must mention that I really thought some of the New Literacy teaching strategies that Finn observed in some of the working-class schools. The two particularly stood out were when the children were required to bring in their parents everday documentaion such as tax bills, directions and so on. I find this to be an amazing idea that could relate to students from various backgrounds. The other idea that I thought was amazing was the guest speakers from the surrounding farms, how could these students not being engaged! It really enforces the idea that we do not need to go that far in order to find relevant materials for our students.
I am interested to see how this book ends- and more so interested to see what differences Finn would find in the current education system with the deteriation of the middle class.
I'm coming to the end of this book and there was one quote that really caught my eye. In chapter 15 on page,193, Finn gives a quote by a teacher contemplating what should be taught, teach to the test or teach creativity. I do feel like our classes miss out on the important topic of competition with other countries.
ReplyDeleteStudents are always being compared to others, whether it is between provinces, cities, countries or ethnicities and I wonder how progressive teaching effects this competition. The teacher mentions how her students should be able to make a car better than the Japanese. Well, how are the Japanese taught? Are they taught to pass a test or think creatively? What types of thinking are valued more than others?
The question of student competition is a good one, and I feel that it plays a major role in why students are taught to the test and not more creatively. Hopefully, we can discuss this topic in class.